The narrative that mouse and keyboard has no recoil in this game is false – and it’s detracting from the real issue.

First things first, this isn't a PC/Console debate – it's an input one.

I know some of the concerns are coming from console players worried about the upcoming crossplay update – but PC players using a controller will have the same shooting mechanics as console players do – with a few exceptions for physics based things that are tied to framerate being only possible on PC. (The issues regarding hardware limitations/differences are a whole post in their own right. But let me just say that addressing them by changing the shooting mechanics for one platform is not the way forward.)

I really don't want to turn this into an input war, so in relation to this first point I'd like to highlight that there are plenty of PvP players that exclusively use controller on PC. I think people vastly underestimate how many actually do so, someone using Traction is usually a good indicator. These inputs have been mixed together on PC for a long time and it's been mostly fine that way. The complaints from both sides are largely overblown with a few legitimate exceptions such as controller sensitivity settings, and aim assist values for certain precision weapons like Arbelast or lower zoom snipers (which have now been largely addressed).

But due to some of the unfortunate dialogue I've seen from this subreddit after these changes, I thought it was necessary to make this post with some evidence to demonstrate inaccuracies around the discussion.

Mouse and keyboard does have recoil, and stability does matter.

This started out as an exaggeration, but has become so pervasive that people are actually believing that guns stay completely stable when you shoot them – they don't.

Here's an example of what two stability perks can do

The first 3 magazines fired from this Seventh Seraph Carbine recoil upwards and left significantly, due to this roll having rubbish stability. When the perks are changed to Ricochet rounds and Fluted barrel the gun's recoil is constrained substantially.

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Anecdotally, I always preferred Spare Rations to Dire Promise because of the difference in stability. Despite having a Dire Promise with much better perks – the visual kick it had compared to Spare meant I much preferred using a technically inferior gun. The stability mattered.

"Destiny 2 has no recoil compared to other PC FPS"

This is more exaggerated than outright false, but there are a couple of key differences that are worth noting here.

Here's an example of the AEK from battlefield being fired

This actually recoils less than the SSC above before its perks are changed. But the most significant difference between Destiny and other games with more recoil, imo, is the lack of refferrable spray patterns.

Take Apex, an example I've seen brought up frequently in this discussion. Nevermind that things like the r301 are incredibly easy to control.

Each gun recoils in consistent way such that the user can learn how to fire it consistently, and skilled players are rewarded with accuracy at long range. Recoil doesn't work this way in Destiny, guns can kick in different directions based on their recoil stat. More information here on recoil direction.

In Destiny, bullet magnetism and the range stat have FAR FAR more of an effect on shots actually landing than anything else, and with no way to "master" a particular gun's recoil – increasing it will just make everything feel… worse.

"Bungie will walk back on some of the changes if they go too far"

Non precision handcannons were borderline unusable on a controller until Shadowkeep despite repeated and persistent feedback. Forgive me for not giving them the benefit of the doubt here.

The issue at hand, and final thoughts

Bungie seem to have forgotten the original reason for this discussion existing…

Guns on controller recoil too much! There are entire classes of guns that go largely unused due to the recoil making them too cumbersome to use effectively. Increasing the recoil on MnK (by 50%!) does nothing to address this!

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We had a playerbase where users felt unconstrained to use whatever guns they liked, based on their own preferences – players were playing their own way.

And another, that had their options unfairly limited in certain scenarios due to their input type.

And Bungies solution to this is to simultaneously worsen the feel of every gun in the game for the playerbase that was happy with their sandbox?! On MnK there are currently no scenarios in which a weapon is unused purely from a usability standpoint. Why take the risk of creating this outcome? Why make guns (like the SSC probably will become, or many SMGs on controller) where they require certain perks to be usable?

I'm also somewhat disheartened to see opinions from console players firmly stating that this is a good change be so widespread, when many of them admit to not even having played Destiny with an MnK. I'm not sure they'd be too happy with popular calls for aim assist being reduced by 50% from MnK players who had never tried using an SMG on a controller.

I'll concede that there certainly is room to increase recoil on PC without the above happening, as a lot of guns recoil less than the SSC. But for the above reasons I believe it is unnessary. Given that this is bungies response to crossplay, I have no faith that these changes will be well thought out or well implemented. Plenty of PC players PvP with a controller with no issue, and at top levels of play there are very formiddable streamers in Drewsky, Jake, and Purechill off the top of my head. If they are worried about controller players having a hard time, they should give them some proper sensitivity options and fix outliers from their input.

Let's not forget that this issue is something that Bungie has clearly thought about before – with some comments from Mark Noseworthy himself.

“Recoil on the controller feels really good. ‘I’m firing, I’m firing, I’m firing, oh, I’m losing control of my gun a little bit.’ That feels great, especially with magnetism and all the magic in the controller that makes you feel it,” Noseworthy said.

“With a mouse and keyboard, you don’t want the mouse moving without you moving it, so recoil doesn’t feel good.”

Although he originally said there would be “no recoil” in the PC version of Destiny 2, Noseworthy later took to Twitter to pass on comments from Destiny 2 PC lead David Shaw confirming recoil is still in, but works differently.

Or is this somehow, no longer true?

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Edit: Bit disappointed that "You don't want balance, you just hate the idea of losing your self inflated sense of superiority." is fine – but this post is controversial… Let's not delude ourselves and pretend any of this hate goes one way. Some of you would do well to remember we're all playing the same game.


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