EVE Online

ESS Math – Corrections on previous post.

This post is a direct rebuttal to this post:

Now I like people going about and researching information, however that information should be correct. On a number of points this poster is incorrect so I wanted to show where he was in fact incorrect and provide corrections and evidence to back this up.

TL;DR: THIS MOTHERFUCKER POSTS SOMETHING SO I SPENT MY AFTERNOON PROVING HIM WRONG BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I'M ABOUT.

Before I get into the mechanics, a few basic things to understand.

BRM does not impact bounties at all for your ticks, it only applies to the ISK that goes into the ESS main bank (this was enough to figure out that I'm completely ignoring the reserve bank and the mechanics there). This is easily tested by killing the same rats with the same bounties in two different systems with different BRM values, wait 20 minutes, the paid bounties will be identical.

This is wrong.

My methods for showing this. I ratted in two systems. One with a BRM of 124.2% and another with a BRM of 118.0%.

I will use a Hub site as my basis and I will kill one rat type per tick to show exactly what the payouts are on the tick.

System with a 124.2% BRM System A:

A Hub rat, Core High Admiral is 993,750 ISK per kill.

At the tick mark I was paid 740,449 ISK, (74,044 ISK was paid as tax) for a total of 814,493 paid to my wallet. This is equal to me being paid out 65.99% of the adjusted rat value on my tick.

407,028 was paid out by the ESS.

452,244 ISK was paid to the ESS originally.

45,224.4 ISK was paid as tax.(As an aside here, the tax percentage for some reason seems off by like a small percentage. I should have paid 45,224 in tax but I believe I paid 45,216. 45,216 is 9.99% not 10.00%. Not sure why there is a difference of .001%.)

This totaled 1,266,737 ISK.

The 124.2% increase of the rat value of 993,750 is 1,234,237.5.

Now if you do the math I was paid 32,500 ISK more then I should have been paid. I have no clue why.

The value paid to the ESS was a 36.6% of the total adjusted value of the rat.

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I believe CCP just fucked up the math when coding the payout. You get 2.59% more then you should get.

So here for a fact the value is adjusted on the tick level. The base value is added to your ratting pool. The BRM is then applied to the whole amount on the TICK. Then the ESS portion is added to the ESS Pool, the Reserve Portion is added to the Reserve Pool, and you are paid out the difference on the regular Tick.

https://preview.redd.it/bbwgroqcd2l61.png?width=160&format=png&auto=webp&s=c7b57706ed6bd7300514fb185ca0520fdd11b5a2

https://preview.redd.it/bpdgnprtb2l61.png?width=434&format=png&auto=webp&s=b78fb20b3c49bd18532c652542d9dc12b3bbbbd8

https://preview.redd.it/p6f2x79xb2l61.png?width=190&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa4bacdb96afd4587d6ac1a9f21a14b88e703af7

https://preview.redd.it/ox3oiw80g2l61.png?width=439&format=png&auto=webp&s=9b70c71286f1a9a68489e5bc25939cd870d910be

System B with a BRM of 118%:

Site – Hub

Rat – Core High Admiral, value: 993,750 ISK.

https://preview.redd.it/bbwgroqcd2l61.png?width=160&format=png&auto=webp&s=c7b57706ed6bd7300514fb185ca0520fdd11b5a2

The adjusted value of the rat is 1,172,625 ISK.

The Tick I was paid was 703,680 ISK.

Tax was paid at 70,368 ISK.

https://preview.redd.it/6vtgpg8pg2l61.png?width=448&format=png&auto=webp&s=2085097f72c90b30f1361ec87dacfa986f608fab

https://preview.redd.it/93rn8whjr2l61.png?width=449&format=png&auto=webp&s=9ca838101ac03e057ea901bf8e199a67f9e70001

For a total value of 774,048 ISK. This is a percentage of 66%. A .01% difference but I hold this to a rounding difference between System A and System B.

The adjust values were different and solely on that point we can conclude that the BRM does have an effect at the TICK level and not just in the ESS values.

The ESS payout for this was 389,134. Unfortunately in my System B someone else was ratting so I couldn't get a Screen Shot of the ESS.

However using the math of 36.6% paid to ESS, the adjusted value being 1,172,625, that gives me a pre-tax ESS value of 429,180.75. I was paid 389,134. The difference is 40,046.75 which is the tax paid. However this percentage of 9.33% , which like before is the same where it should be 10% but by some strange rounding issues CCP has, it comes out less then what it should have.

The same 2.6% bonus was here as well.

My share of the bounty pay out was 774,048(pretax), The ESS payout was 429,180.75(pretax) for a total of 1,203,228.75. Which is 2.6% higher then the adjusted value of 1,172,625.

One small note on the reserve bank, the ISK that goes into there is 100% bonus/generated, all of the ISK from the bounties are accounted for. I did not calculate how much ISK goes into the reserve bank, or if it's effected by BRM as well.

This point is correct and I cannot account for the ISK that goes to the Reserve. However I believe this is an error on CCP and not on purpose due to the fact there is an additional 2.59% to 3.0% that is generated above and beyond what should be generated. I believe that amount is how much should go to the Reserve but they messed up in their algo and thus it is paid to the player and to the Reserve.

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ISK paid out by the ESS *IS* taxed, the capsuleer does not see this in their wallet however. If you have access to the corp wallet you can run tests and see that when the ESS pays out, the corp gets their cut of it. This ISK appears to be generated from nothing as 100% of the money that goes into the ESS is paid out from the main bank. I do not not have access to a corp wallet, so cannot speak directly or definitively to this.

This section is wrong. I showed this above. The tax for the ESS payout is adjusted when the ISK is delivered to your wallet.

If your "tick" is 100k ISK or less, then there is no corp tax applied and it bypasses the ESS entirely. So I guess if you really REALLY hate BRM/ESS mechanics, just limit yourself to 100k ISK per 20 minutes. Stick it to your corp CEO and to CCP, it's win/win/win!

I didn't look into this. I might in the future but seeing how he was wrong about the ESS tax, I think this might be wrong as well.

Corp tax is a little screwy. Even if you set it to 100%, the chars earning the ISK still have (very small) ticks in their wallet. Not sure if that's because of the 100k ISK mechanic above.

Same, I might look into this in the future.

ISK goes into the ESS when the pirate bounties are paid (hits your wallet, aka ticks), not when the bounties are generated. This means that potentially you could have a delay of up to 2 hours and 20 minutes before you get paid out from the ESS.

This is correct.

The TL;DR:

If you hate the BRM/ESS mechanics, you can rest easy and happily ignore the BRM. I cannot find any hard numbers, but I have found some reports that 5% of bounties pre-BRM were disappeared, so apparently even pre-BRM you weren't making 100% of the bounties regardless.

I have no clue what this poster is talking about here and never heard about a 5% difference. I also cannot find evidence of this anywhere.

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To break down effective ISK earning potentials, in the following scenarios you will earn:

ESS Stolen: 81% of earned bounties

30% BRM: 92.4% of earned bounties

50% BRM: 100% of earned bounties

100% BRM: 119% of earned bounties

180% BRM: 149.4% of earned bounties

Effectively this means as long as you defend your ESS, you are earning close to what you would have before ESS mechanics were introduced, even at 30% BRM. The true break even point is 50% BRM, anything above that is generated ISK.

All of these numbers are wrong and I have no idea what he's talking about. I think his logic is flawed but I have no idea what he means.

If the BRM is 100%, you have a ratting pool of 1,000,000, your safe ISK is(pre tax) 660,000, your at risk ISK is 366,000.

The level where you will always get a return equal to a 100% share if your ESS is stolen is 152%(ish).

Otherwise you are always risking ISK.

At 30% BRM you are making nowhere close to what you used to make.

In my example above if you have 1,000,000 ISK in your ratting pool, at 30% BRM you make 198,000 adjusted risk free and have to worry about 102,000 ISK in the ESS.

I'm not sure where he's getting 50% BRM is the break even point?????

Source: reddit.com

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