Some counterpoints and correction of misinformation on a recent post about “Why the NCR can more than easily defeat the Legion in the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, even without the Courier’s help.”

Content of the article: "Some counterpoints and correction of misinformation on a recent post about “Why the NCR can more than easily defeat the Legion in the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, even without the Courier’s help.”"

The post is incredibly biased and is clearly written from the point of someone who strongly favors the NCR. Yes it's incredibly well written and much research was done into presenting the case the OP was going for. However I find that much of the information is made to be made more pallatable to a general audience. My biggest issue with it being the presentation of the regular NCR Army. To quote https://www.reddit.com/user/GodBlessTheNCR316/

"First, let's start with an analysis of the respective weapons, equipment and gear of the respective ranks of the NCR and the Legion going into the Second Battle of Hoover Dam. Beginning with the NCR. The NCR Trooper comprises the core of the Republic's colossal armies and is the prime component of the NCR Army. A superb combination of volunteers and conscripts whose degrees of training, motivation, combat experience and access to equipment vary across the ranks, they're some of the most disciplined, most professional soldiers in all of the Wastes."

The NCR Regular's are hardly a superb combination when compared to their Legion counterparts. To quote Colonel Cassandra Moore: "I've encountered them firsthand, I've been impressed with their discipline. I've heard they don't allow women in their military, considering them nothing more than breeding stock. Their men, however, are typically quite large, in phenomenal condition, and prefer close-quarter weapons. Recent engagements have taught us to fear their shock attacks, so it's a blessing that we seem to have superior firearms." In comparison NCR Trooper discipline is questionable at best as we see corruption among the NCR Army by the likes men of Contreras, Troopers fooling around the New Vegas Strip, and other acts such as when one happens upon Ranger Milo and the 2 NCR Troopers with him. He's all set to attack Nelson… but the troopers with him in part due to not having to follow his orders… but an unwillingness to even consider helping him. To quote Milo: "Nope. I'm just the only ranger around. The rest of the kids here are troopers, inexperienced, out-numbered and under-equipped." Another statement from Moore even furthers how disciplined Legionaries are in comparison to their NCR counterparts: " I've never once seen a single one of them back down, or disobey an order. They'll happily charge a fortified position with little more than a sharpened stick if ordered to, and do so without hesitation." Another excellent From this we can infer that had the situation been reversed, Legionaries in the same situation would be more than happy to do the very thing that the NCR's troopers refuse to. Perhaps an even more direct source for the NCR Regulars is the Route 188 Arms Merchant who herself was a former NCR Army NCO: "It means my C.O. was an asshole, and I told him to eat shit. He ordered me to flog a couple deserters. Those kids didn't desert. They just got liquored up on the Strip and missed roll call. I don't know what else the brass expects… half these kids don't get more than two weeks of training before they ship 'em out here." Not only is she matter of factly stating that the NCR Troopers are undisciplined… but they're poorly trained as well. Perhaps the most accurate statement in the poster's claim is the NCR Army's sheer manpower which according to an in game loading screen: "Troopers are volunteer and conscripted forces in NCR's military. They vary widely in devotion, experience, and even in basic equipment. What they lack in consistency they make up for in numbers." However the Legion is certainly a more professional army, and exceptionally better disciplined.

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"They're outfitted with modern military-grade ballistic vests that offer excellent protection against small arms fire, shrapnel and melee weapons alongside steel helmets. They're armed with 5.56 × .44mm NATO Service Rifles (for the average conscripted NCR Trooper) in addition to 5.56 × .44mm NATO Marksman Carbines, 5mm Assault Rifles, 12-gauge Riot Shotguns and .308 Sniper Rifles (for the battle-hardened, fully-trained volunteer veteran NCR Troopers)."

They most certainly are not equipped with "modern military-grade ballistic vests that offer excellent protection against small arms fire". To quote the 188 Arms Merchant who was a former NCR Army NCO: "Anyway, I was always complaining about the standard issue gear. The new kids don't even get body armor, can you believe that? " Only some of their troopers are equipped with body armor… not the newer ones, and the body armor issued is certainly better than a recruit legionaries, but equal in terms of Damage Threshold to Veteran Legion armor. However with a weight of 26, it is 10 full pounds heavier than the Veteran Legion armor. This gives the Veteran Legionary the same protection as the "battle-hardened, fully-trained volunteer veteran NCR Troopers"… with the additional benefit of being 10 pounds less. Those 10 pounds could potentially mean 10 more pounds of extra ammo, food, supplies, etc… However the statement "battle-hardened, fully-trained volunteer veteran NCR Troopers" is a statement that has no concrete evidence behind it. The statement appears to be made based on the fact that NCR Troopers at Hoover Dam are armed with "Marksman Carbines, 5mm Assault Rifles, 12-gauge Riot Shotguns and .308 Sniper Rifles" that are generally superior to the standard issue Service Rifle. However in all likelihood this is done for game balancing as the Legionaries at the Battle of Hoover Dam are armed with practically the same equipment more or less. It appears as if this statement was made by the OP to compensate for the NCR Army's relative lack of "battle-hardened, fully-trained volunteer veteran NCR Troopers" in comparison to the Legion. In comparison to the Veteran Legionaries who to quote NCR Ranger Chief Hanlon "Take a regular legionary and age him ten years. Whatever they lose to age they make up for with experience. Life expectancy isn't long in the Legion. You live ten years in Caesar's army, you're a force to be reckoned with." One must also mention that there are also indeed NCR Troopers equipped with firearms of lower quality than the general issue Service Rifle E.G. Varmint Rifle and Caravan Shotgun. Yet the poster conveniently "forgot" to mention this, or more likely didn't want to mention it. You also didn't mention how many Legionaries can obtain their arms which according to Colonel Cassandra Moore is: "While they prefer to use their blades, it's common for them to scavenge better weapons from their enemies and use those. The men have been told to toss their weapons over the side of the dam if they receive a fatal wound, but I doubt many will remember." Yes the Legion prefer to use their blades yet they have no hesitation to use firearms at all. Even to the point of the NCR telling their rank and file to ditch their weapon if they're fatally wounded, despite the fact that the average NCR soldier is likely not disciplined enough to do that. While in comparison the average legionary will according to Lt. Carrie Boyd: "Better believe it. Everybody, everybody in Caesar's Legion from Caesar on down will kill themselves before they can be captured." That's fanatical commitment that I doubt many in the NCR's Regular Army having.

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Select elite units of veteran NCR Troopers can also be equipped with Laser Rifles, Plasma Rifles, Tri-Beam Laser Rifles and Multi-Plas Rifles, as well (though not anywhere in the Mojave Wasteland, mind you).

A) Where is there any concrete evidence of the soldiers wielding these energy weapons being "Select elite units of veteran NCR Troopers"? Because as far as I can tell that's again yet another matter of conjecture. B) What is the point of even mentioning these units if your post is "Why the NCR can more than easily defeat the Legion in the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, even without the Courier's help." when these units are "though not anywhere in the Mojave Wasteland, mind you."? I mean yeah sure it's cool that there are NCR soldiers with energy weapons, but if your post is about the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam… than why are you mentioning units that aren't even in the Mojave let alone Hoover Dam?

In conclusion despite the efforts of the OP to sway the reader's view to respect the NCR Army, it's been done in a very biased way. Despite the mountains of evidence against such a case. Note that most of my sources are from either current of former NCR Army Personnel. This is the first phase of my planned breakdown of the OP's original post and I will follow with more throughout the next few days. Granted I'm sure I'll definitely get extreme backlash from rabid and rampant NCR supporters.


Moore’s description of legionaries compared to NCR Troopers:

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Hanlon’s description of legionaries, NCR Trooper Training, and the war in the Mojave:


188 Arms Merchant description of the poor state of the NCR’s soldiers:


Ranger Milo: https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Milo%27s_dialogue_(Fallout:_New_Vegas))

Loading Screens: https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Fallout:_New_Vegas_loading_screen_hints

NCR Trooper Armor: https://fallout.gamepedia.com/NCR_trooper_armor

Veteran Legionary Armor: https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Legion_veteran_armor

NCR Army and Equipment: https://fallout.gamepedia.com/New_California_Republic_Army

Boyd: https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Carrie_Boyd%27s_dialogue

Source: reddit.com

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