The Elder Scrolls

Julianos and why he is not popular in the Imperial or Nordic pantheon. THEORY, he got cast out of Nordic Pantheon for challenging fundamentalist religious establishment and teaching mortals how to ascend as gods.

I recently did another thread about Zenithar not being very popular and not being worshiped or praised much in-game like the other Divines. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/n47rwb/zenithar_one_of_the_less_well_known_divines_i/

But now I will do one of Julianos.

Ok so first of all, Julianos is the god of wisdom, education, and logic. To the Nords he is known as Jhunal. But he had a falling out of the Nordic Pantheon earlier on. Now there was a thread someone made about Femininity in Tamriel, and about Dibella. When Shor/Lorkhan lost a battle, Jhunal in his infinite wisdom, and logic got up to speak, but instead Dibella proceeded to speak before him, and got dragged away on the ground by her hair by either Stuhn or Tsun. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/20kfc7/femininity_in_tamrielic_faith_part_3_dibella/

Now Jhunal did not speak much, and was very laid back, and reserved. I think there is more to Jhunal than meets the eye. His temples are not even considered temples, but rather schools, or academic centers/universities. Places where magic is taught. He was the god of hermetic orders for the Nords.

Now here is something very interesting. The Dwemer were obviously elves. But Julianos/Jhnual is absent in all the Elven pantheons, unless we assume Jhunal is actually Syrabane, or Xarxes, but I think Xarxes is Arkay/Orkey. So that leaves Syrabane but Syrabane is still a different aspect entirely. Not quite the same personality, but could be part of the Julianos oversoul.

Going back to the Dwemer, we know nothing about their gods. They were not atheists, and this is well established. It says they mocked the Chimer, and the Daedra. The scorned the Daedra, because of the Daedric Princes' "evil deeds." Boethiah, and Mephala aren't the nicest of the Daedra, and Azura is more of a controlling strict mother. Meanwhile, the Chimer also had heretical House of Trouble sects that followed Malacath, Molag Bal, Mehrunes Dagon, and Sheogorath. While those sects were heretical, and not popular, and were condemned by the majority of Chimer at large, the Dwemer still saw them the same as they did the rest of the Chimer.

It never says the Dwemer condemned or scorned the Aedra, or the Divines. It says they scorned the Daedra, and preferred instead "their gods of reason and logic." Gods of reason and logic. Who could that be? Jhunal? Syrabane? Julianos? Xarxes? Magnus?

If the Dwemer served Jhunal/Julianos and other gods of wisdom and logic like Magnus, that would explain their worldviews. They may not really "worship" them in the traditional sense, but they DO follow them. Their attempts to use the Heart of Lorkhan was an attempt to ascend to godhood as an entire race. They may or may not have succeeded. Their construction of Numidium is another sign. The Dwemer had knowledge of CHIM, Mantling, and Zero-Summing. They knew stuff other people didn't. Jhunal is not a god to be prayed to and worshiped like the other Divines, or even other Aedra or Daedra. Magnus, Xarxes, and Syrabane, wouldn't be worshipped the same either. Their goal as an entire race was to become gods, or transcend the gods. Which is why they did not "worship" in a normal sense. This basically makes Jhunal out to be the Gnostic version of Jesus from the Apocrypha Nag Hammadi Gnostic texts. The Dwemer, are a race of Nimrods. The Numidium is the Tower of Babel. The Dwemer even look just like Babylonians, Assyrians, and Sumerians from concept art. Dumac Dwarfking, Mzark, Yagrum Bagarn, Gharen, and Kagrenac = Sargon of Akkad, Nimrod, Gilgamesh, and Hammurabbi. Babylon Mystery Gnostic Hermetic Religion = Dwemer.

Now back to Jhunal. Jhunal embodies many of the traits that Sotha Sil does. Sotha Sil does not even consider himself a god, and is so powerful he wouldn't even notice the loss of his divine power from the Heart of Lorkhan. He likely didn't even need it anymore once he built Clockwork City. If Jhunal is indeed similar, he wouldn't consider himself a god at all. Therefore he does not care if he gets prayed to or worshiped! He may not even desire worship at all! Just like Sotha Sil. He is worshiped for his wisdom, and qualities. So others can be like him. Not because he is a god, or has lots of power. It is likely even after Sotha Sil's death, the Clockwork Apostles continued to serve him, because of his qualities, and wisdom. Not because he was a god. He does not consider himself a god.

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Why call yourself a god?

Sotha Sil: "I don't."

Also Sotha Sil: "I am whatever the people need me to be. A guardian. An oppressor. For some, too distant. For others, too meddlesome. I am the canvas upon which they paint their dreams and resentments. A vessel for their hopes and doubts.A mirror. Nothing more."

Sounds like something Jhunal would also say. I imagine Jhunal speaking in many pairables just like the Messiah Jesus from the Bible. Full of secret spiritual meaning, and symbolism. And then just turning the entire religious establishment into a bunch of crying SJWs and is a DANGER to the religious fundamentalist establishment. Just like how the Dwemer were a danger to the Chimer Religion and the Daedra in the TES universe, and how Jhunal was a threat to the Nordic, Imperial, and Aldmeri religious establishment. So much so, that the others casted Julianos as a "traitor" to Lorkhan and he got "cast out" of the Nordic pantheon. Then he got reintroduced as a heavily Imperialized Divine which the Divine Imperial Cult is just a large personality cult. They are not interested in learning how to become a god like Talos/Tiber Septim did. They worship Talos, sure, but don't want to be like him, Arkay, Akatosh, Jhunal, Mara, Dibella, or any of the other gods, including the Daedra. Imperial Cult turned them all into personalities to be worshiped. Not emulated, or mantled. No Ascension. The Aldmeri Pantheon is about Ascension to godhood same with the Nordic Pantheon, but in a more violent left-hand path way. Aldmeri Pantheon and Nordic Pantheon is either right-hand path and left-hand respectively. This is where the Elnohfey Wars come from. Not "pointed ears vs round ears," or "elves vs humans" but "right-hand vs left-hand." Religion like the Thalmor religion, and modern Imperial cult religion would teach it is about race. The Aldmer Pantheon, and Nordic Pantheon is more than just race. It is a magical way of Ascension. It is an Occult War. Even the Yokudan Pantheon and Dunmer Pantheon is about Ascension (CHIM, and Hoonding). The Imperial Cult like what Zaric Zhakaron said is "Christian." I would argue, they are not "Christian" they are "Religious Fundamentalist Establishment." As many real life Christian groups exist that have a different view of the Bible.

Jhunal did not "fall out" of the Nordic Pantheon he got cast out, or willingly stepped out. For reasons unknown he got placed in the Imperial Alessian Pantheon as one of the Eight Divines. It is likely he didn't notice, or even cared. He may not see himself as a god, and more interesting in preserving knowledge/memory to be shared. His followers, the Moth Priests serve as protectors for the Elder Scrolls. And yes, it is established in-lore that the Moth Priests follow Julianos. School of Julianos also serves him. I imagine them to be very similar to the Clockwork Apostles. The Knights Mentor of Julianos, Temple, and School are all one in the same I imagine. Why the Moth Priests don't have Knights Mentor of Julianos protecting them when they travel to search for Elder Scrolls, or travel to Ancestor Glades to prevent people like this https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Malkus#:~:text=Malkus%20is%20an%20Orc%20vampire,find%20a%20note%20from%20Malkus. from kidnapping them I'll never understand. As a legionary escort is way more inferior and provides far less security.

If Jhunal "fell out" of the Nordic Pantheon, it is because the Nords rejected his teachings. Or got cast out because he was slandered. Unless he willingly "stepped out." Like how Sotha Sill retreated to his Clockwork City, or Syrabane.

So what was Jhunal trying to teach the Nords? The Psijic Endeavor? Ascension? How to become a god? If the Dwemer served Jhunal/Julianos and they built Numidium as a Tower of Babel to escape the Mundus to become gods, or they believed the gods are not gods at all, but just powerful teachers/spirits to follow as you please or reject and mock, then perhaps Jhunal's earlier followers were very much like the Dwemer. Escape the Dream. "You are god, etc." "Don't worship me, but follow my instructions, and you will be like me. I am what you make me to be. A god, demon, servant, mage, teacher, human, or Nord. Follow me, and you will eclipse the "gods" and escape this Dream." Dwemer are not atheists, or agnostics. They are "Babylon Mystery Religion." They are a race of Nimrods. They follow Julianos, Xarxes, and Magnus, the gods of logic, education, reason, learning, magic, and occultism. What were the Nordic Hermetic Orders of Jhunal trying to do for them to lose popularity, or go into hiding, and have their god kicked out of the Pantheon as if he was 4th Era Talos if their god demands that all knowledge be shared openly?

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What about Hermeaus Mora? Another god of knowledge? How does this tie in to Hermeaus Mora? Hermeaus Mora hoards knowledge. Julianos shares it with no strings attached. Mora gives it to you in exchange for your soul, sanity, dangerous task, or with strings attached. I imagine Mora steals a lot of knowledge from the followers of Jhunal all the time. They would be enemies. Like Mannimarco vs Arkay/Orkey. Or Lorkhan vs Auriel. Or Boethiah vs Molag Bal. Dibella vs Sanguine. Molag Bal vs Meridia.

Back to Jhunal. What does Jhunal teach? It must be more than magic. Lots of people teach magic. No, this Divine teaches mortals how to Ascend, and is not interesting in worship. Jhunal's Nordic Hermetic Orders would be heavily persecuted by government authorities, magical institutions, high kings, heretical religious sects, rival Aldmeri gods, and their followers, Hermeaus Mora and his Seekers/Followers, and Institutionalized Status Quo religious establishment, and have Alleister Crowley, and Thelema, or Gnostic influences. Julianos is heavily Imperialized, and watered down version of Jhunal. So the School of Julianos is likely nothing more but a glorified scientific or magical academy like the College of Sapiarchs, with the Knights Mentor guarding it and being one in the same with the "Temple" of Julianos. The "Temples" of Julianos are really just education centers. Symbolic real world correlation, the Knights Mentor represent the security guards that protect the students from school shooters, and break up fights between the kids, and play football with them. I am sure many of you here when you were in school in real life had cool security guards that hung out with the kids, and taught them sports, and "don't do drugs kids. Stay out of school suspension. Don't get in fights. This is a good school." That'd be the Knights Mentor of the TES universe.

The closest thing to a Imperialized "Hermetic Order" of Jhunal would likely be the Keepers of the Elder Scrolls. But it is also possible, that since they serve the Imperialized Julianos, they are not a true Hermetic Order, and are more interested in preserving and studying the Elder Scrolls. But the Elder Scrolls can teach mortals many things as well, more than Hermeaus Mora's Black Books or Oghma Infinium. Since it is an Imperialized Institution, their job is to safeguard the Empire (Nu-Mantia Intercept, and ESO White Gold Tower Group Dungeon Quest. Also I think the Order of Moth Priests and possible secret temporarily aligned rival Jhunal/Julianos Hermetic Orders used magic to cause the Elder Scrolls to vanish across Tamriel once the Aldmeri Dominion took over the White Gold Tower during the 4th Era Great War). The Moth Priests are dedicated to National Security just like the Blades, Legion, Penitus Occulatus, Synod, and College of Whispers. They use the Elder Scrolls and safeguard them and try to use the Elder Scrolls prophecies for the benefit of the Empire, and suppress the bad Elder Scrolls prophecies. Since all they do is study the Elder Scrolls, there is likely much more to the suppressed Hermetic Orders than just studying Elder Scrolls. But I imagine that many of the Nordic Jhunal Hermetic Orders likely sought out Elder Scrolls and gathered some as well, and hidden them. The Cult of the Ancestor Moth also started a Civil War in Cyrodiil against Tiber Septim, but they were defeated and subjugated to service of the Third Empire. What did Tiber Septim do for the Moth Priests of all people to start a rebellion? Is it because the Cult of the Ancestor Moth was a originally a Secret Jhunal Hermetic Order? And the only one in service to the Empire? Perhaps it is a compromised Imperialized Hermetic Order if it is one, or was one because Julianos is an Imperial god, not a Nordic one, and replacing Jhunal with Julianos is a Watered Down Cucked Imperialized version of Jhunal. Though they clearly supported the Second Empire as well, and even assisted the Undaunted in retaking the White Gold Tower from Molag Bal in ESO.

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Excerpt from The Song of Talos & the Moth:

“…Through His Faithful Few, Talos Roared Moth Apostasy To Ash, And Silk Was Spun Anew…”

While records of this battle are famously scant (likely due to the Bibliognosts of the time having joined their Ancestors in the fray, and were largely slaughtered), it is kept in oral traditions that the Third Legion, filled with the Ruby-Visions of their ascended God-Emperor Talos, went forth shouting down the Moth-Chants of the Heartland Cult (Kyrinicyusus, M. "Analysis of the Talos Battle-Ballads" p. 244, Univ of Gwylim Press, 3E 325), decimating the remaining cultist rebels.

Upon seeing the distant darkness lifted from the Heartlands, Tiber calls forth his arcanist, Arctus the Fox, who binds the Moth-Mother with the Northern rune-math of Jhunal, forging a three-sided cage known as the Damned Equation. Instructing Colovians in the Old Law of Jhunal, Arctus shows them how to ritually chain the Moth so that they might better understand its history (the remaining Nibenese are recorded to have been scandalised by this transgression). Tiber makes a new contract with the Moth-Mother-in-Chains, enforced by the Jhunal Monks as the new Keepers of History (an act known as the Moth Cult Reformation). Dedications are made to Jhunal-now-Julianous under Imperial Law.

Victorious, the battle-hardened Third Legion triumphantly paraded with the Emperor & his Honor Guard back into the Capital, up through Green Emperor Road to the Palace, and were honored by Tiber Septim officially as “The Faithful”.

Surviving members of the Third were later inducted into the core of Tiber’s Ruby Legion, while others still evangelised by their visions founded the Order of the Blood Dome Temple, a Cult of Templars that persisted for some few hundred years later (Kyrinicyusus, M. "Histories of the Head Reds" p. 8, Univ of Gwylim Press, 3E 332), but was never officially recognised by Imperial Charter of Cults & Permitted Deifications (due to their extremist rhetoric, and preoccupation with royal hematophagic ritualism).

(In more recent memory the Nibenean Moth-Prince Thules the Gibbering briefly took the Imperial Throne during the Stormcrown Interregnum, as it’s last would-be Emperor (and some consider the most legitimate of claimants).

Previously holding the title Provincial Bibliognost of Llénnöcöcönnèll (under the reign of Emperor Uriel Septim VII), and of Nedic Moth Royalty in own right, Emperor Thules had cocooned himself in the ceiling of the Imperial Council Chambers, attempting to, in his own words “reveal lepidopterii values to the hypnopompic few, unshackled from & without enantiomorphic aggression amid a sea of subgradients”.

However, while gestating in chrysalis, Thules was betrayed by his Minister of Silk, Lord Hierem, to General Titus Mede of Colovia — Emperor Titus Mede I, Blessed First of his Line, Father of the 4th Empire of Man.)

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