World of Warcraft (WoW)

Some Personal Thoughts on T5 and The Exponentially Falling Playerbase [Opinion]

I have had some thoughts about this current phase since I first saw the PTR versions of the bosses. TLDR in PTR my thoughts were 'no way this shit gets released like this'

In order to start of this discussion, let's set some context.

  • A ton of people have stopped raiding. This is a fact that we know based on ironforge .pro data.
  • Guilds that were able to full clear Naxx in Classic are failing in the current content. This is mainly because of KT and Vasj, but even Alar and Tidewalker have hard stopped many guilds.
  • A large majority of guilds who HAVE cleared T5 either A) spent more time in the PTR than some guilds have spent in live or B) were able to raid 3+ days and or extend raid times way over the typical 2.5-3 hour times that I believe are standard.

In short my opinion is that releasing T5 as is was a massive misread and mistake. Yes, there are players who are begging for 'hard'/progression content so that they can separate themselves from other guilds and show how good they are (lol). But that is a pretty small populous of who is playing (this is an opinion based on my play experience/people I have played with across multiple servers).

In general I believe those are the most loud players as they are all over forums, PTR, multiple discords etc. but the large majority of the playerbase from classic that came over from TBC don't like the players like that and are misrepresented by these sweaties.

In order to get specific I’ll start with the fight that is clearly the largest mistake: Vasj. Lets start talking about Vasj by noting that 2 guilds (yes, 2!) ever cleared Vasj in the state she was released in, and BOTH of those kills required world buffs. The DPS checks on the Striders/Nagas are almost double what people actually killed her with, and the wiggle room for say, bringing an extra healer to the fight is basically none. Some guilds even take a healer out specifically for her because the DPS checks are high. It is a very achievable DPS check, sure, but it requires minmax to a higher level than I think it should. This may surprise what I call the loud minority of really sweaty players that I mentioned earlier but a lot of people like playing with friends and prioritizing a positive atmosphere more so than minmaxing content and tryharding it to a level that basically turns the game in to a job. If the classic community wanted to really push the envelope on contemporary raids with complex mechanics we would raid retail mythic. I don’t really think most of the playerbase is willing to put in 10 hours of raidtime a week for multiple weeks of progression to kill a boss with 15-year old AWFUL mechanics (without even saying it you all know what I’m talking about, non-CCable buffed mind controls do not belong in this game, and there’s a reason it was removed).

I remember when T5 first came out there was a post on this subreddit listing like a 2% success rate on Vasj pulls, and in the comments it was a giant circlejerk of ‘finally real progression’ from the loud minority. But like…. Progression of what? People know exactly what to do, the actual mechanics are not hard its just the tuning/RNG lets be real. Didn’t bring at least 7 ranged non-hunter dps? Progression. Have 4 tanks and 7 healers because you want to play with your friends? Progression. One of your pallies got MCed and LoHed Vasj? Progression. You can do everything right in that fight and just wipe to minmax and or RNG. This is bad design. This is what people don’t like, this is why people stop raiding. It is WAY different with KT because when you wipe you did something wrong and can learn from it. With Vasj wiping you can literally just come to the conclusion that you don’t have a comp that can efficiently meet the checks/got unlucky. It’s not so much ‘progression’ which I consider to be wiping, learning, improving and making progress (hence the name) its more so just hitting your head against a wall that you might not be able to get through while playing the game the way you enjoy to.

I think this loud minority of players is the voice that is getting through to Blizzard and are starting to put a bad trend in place. People should be able to clear this 15 year old content by mastering the fights. We shouldn’t get into a situation where we are being forced into ‘synthetic progression’ by making the game harder than it should be for the mostly casual playerbase that is playing an already achieved game for fun and community. Sure, the sweaties who spent 40 hours of playtime in the PTR before phase launches will get bored quickly but I don’t think the game should be re-released around their opinions. That is just what I think though. There’s way more people not clearing and burning out of the content currently than are enjoying it. The people who feel this way just go away silently though while the maniacs keep going hard on the message boards about how bad everyone who is having trouble with this content is but like… get over yourself lol.


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